2012年7月17日联合国秘书长潘基文新浪微博访谈

　　Yang: You actually talked about this new thinking and Triple Bottom Lines of sustainable development. Could you elaborate on some of this?

　　杨澜：实际你也谈到了一个新的思维，还有三重底线，这方面都是关于可持续发展的，您能不能关于这方面给我们多讲一些?

　　Ban: We have used our limited resources in the name of development and prosperity. We have consumed all our resources. We have to understand that resources of us have limitation. I’ve been saying that human beings are living on a tipping point depending on how we address this crisis. We may guarantee this continued prosperity to our succeeding generation. Otherwise we’ll have to leave all this to our succeeding generation. This is not right. World leaders should have a clear vision and strong political will to put us toward a greater sustainable path. Political, social economic all should be sustainable. All of this sustainability should be the high priority of UN.

　　潘基文：我们用这些有限的资源来实现发展和繁荣，但是我们不能够消耗我们所有的资源，我们必须要意识到这一点，资源是有限度的。我想说，人类现在生活在一个关键的节点，这取决于我们将会如何来解决这个危机，如果我们能够很好的解决这个危机，我们能够保证实现持续的繁荣和发展，但是，如果做不到的话，我们现在这些问题、现在这些负担会转嫁给以后的后代，这么做是不对的，世界的领导人必须要有这样一个清晰的愿景，必须要有非常坚定的政治承诺，让我们都能够实现可持续发展，走上可持续发展的路径。我们需要在政治、社会、经济各个方面都实现可持续性，可持续性现在已经成为联合国的头等大事。

　　Yang: You are going to deliver a speech tomorrow in title "The Future We Want", so what is the future we want? And what are the forces that are changing our future?

　　杨澜：您明天将会发表一个演讲，这个题目是“我们想要的未来”，我们到底想要的未来是怎样的?到底改变我们未来的力量是什么?

　　Ban: We have to work for young generation who will be leaders tomorrow. What kind of future do we want to leave to our succeeding generation? It is a world where every woman and man can live with dignity, have decent job and free from fear of water security, food crisis and health issues. We have to realize a world where woman can live without discrimination. They should be given full opportunities. This is the world which we want to create, where all the men and women can live a life free from fear and concerns about security, jobs and opportunities.

　　潘基文：我们必须要为年轻一代做工作，因为年轻的一代将会成为明天的栋梁，我们需要一个什么样的未来呢?我们的后代会从我们这里继承到什么样的未来呢?每一个男性、每一个女性都需要实现有尊严的生活，有体面的工作，不用担心、不用恐惧，他们能够有安全的饮用水、有充足的粮食、有健康，我们必须要意识到在我们这个世界中以后女性不再受歧视，她们应该享有充分的机会在社会、经济、政治方面，这是我们希望看到的未来，希望创造的未来。我们希望在未来的世界里面，所有的男性和女性都不再恐惧、不再害怕，有安全、有工作、有机会，在各个方面实现自己的潜力。

　　Yang: And what are the forces that are helping you to achieve that goal? And that you want to collaborate with?

　　杨澜：是哪一些力量能够帮助您实现这些目标呢?或者您希望于哪些力量进行合作?

　　Ban: UN has many development programs and plans. The millennium development goal is the blueprint adopted by world leaders on the occasion of welcoming the new millennium in 2000. We have set a 15-year deadline with three years left. We have to realize all these eight goals. That’s what the world leaders have discussed in the Rio de Janeiro. That’s why we have agreed to establish sustainable development goals. I wait to see to establish a high panel of eminent persons who will present their political visions together with strong political will so as to let UN and world leaders to figure out how to make the future we want for our next generation in the coming years.

　　潘基文：联合国有很多发展计划和项目，千年发展目标是我们的蓝图，是世界领导人在新千年到来之前在2000 年制定的，我们给自己确定了十五年的时间，现在还有三年的时间，这是一个非常快速的做好，所以我们必须要实现八个千年发展目标，而且我们还必须想下一步该怎么做。世界领导人在里约+20峰会的会议上也讨论了这个问题，就是要进一步的制定可持续发展的目标，我们希望能够建立一个高层次的小组和会议，让各个方面的老师能够提出自己的意见，能够获得政治上的支持和意愿，从而让联合国去思考如何在以后进一步的领导这个世界，实现可持续发展，从而在未来多年都做到这一点。

　　Yang: (Question from @?小宸的?托邦) As the deadline of the Millennia Development，our goals are approaching very fast 2015, in what areas are we lagging behind our former expectations and how are going to address these questions?

　　杨澜：(微博用户@?小宸的?托邦问题)联合国千年发展目标设定的完成时间是2015年，但目前落实进程明显滞后，您对实现这一目标是否依然有细心?

　　Ban: We have achieved considerably good results in reducing poverty by half, which the World Bank has announced several months ago. We have also achieved some results in providing safe drinking water by reducing the half of population who do not have access to safe drinking water. We have to do more in the global health. We have to reduce people suffering from HIV AIDS, TB and malaria. But I think in this area, we have also made good progress. As Secretary General, I have very ambitious targets in the coming 5 years. First we’d like to eliminate this polio from earth and I’d like to see no death from malaria by 2015 or around that time. We’d like to eradicate measles. We also want to eradicate HIV AIDS with no child born with HIV. These are five main causes behind children’s deaths that we want to wipe from Earth.

　　潘基文：我们已经在很大程度上实现了很好的成绩，比如说把赤贫减少一半，这个目标实际上已经实现了，在几个月前我们宣布实现了这个目标。还有其他方面，比如说提供安全的饮用水方面，通过相关的措施，把那些没有办法获得安全饮用水的人数量减少一半，这个目标也实现了。但是在全球健康方面还需要做更多的工作，比如说减少艾滋病、肺结核、疟疾方面，还需要做很多工作，我们需要实现了很多的成绩，我们的目标还是任重道远，我们其实有更加雄心勃勃的目标，在今后五年我们希望能够消除小儿麻痹症，而且能够把因疟疾而导致的死亡大幅度的减少，并且能够消灭麻疹，并且在艾滋病 HIV方面也能够实现没有任何新生儿出生的时候有HIV病毒，这是我们目前五大造成儿童死亡的原因。

　　Yang: (Question from Weibo user) What do you think of the worsening situation in Syria? Do you still think that we have the hope to realize the 6-point plan? Do you think the agenda of some of western countries is actually to topple off the government in Syria?

　　杨澜：(网友问题)你如何看待在叙利亚现在的情形?您认为是不是有希望能够解决在叙利亚的人道主义危机?您认为在西方国家的一些内容是为了实现政权的更迭吗?

　　Ban: First of all, the bloodshed must stop by both sides, Syrian government forces, and opposition forces. We should not allow any such valuable life to be victimized. I'm deeply concerned that sometimes I cannot sleep when I think of so many people being killed every day, even today and yesterday, a hundred and two hundred people have been killed. This must stop at any cost so that Syrian people can commence immediately their political dialogue for political resolution of this issue reflecting the genuine aspiration and genuine leads of people.

　　潘基文：首先流血必须要停止，双方必须做到这一点，双方都要做到这一点，我们不能容忍宝贵的生命丧失。我非常关注这个问题，有的时候我难以入睡，我想到有如此多的人被杀害，每天都在发生这样的事情，今天、明天可能又有人死亡，这让我难以入睡，这必须要以不惜一切代价的方式结束。我们希望叙利亚的人民能够进行政治的对话，为这个问题找到政治的解决方法，从而真正的反映叙利亚人民他们的心声和愿望。

　　China can play a very important role which is one of the reasons that I am here. I try to discuss this matter with the leadership of Chinese government, President Hu Jintao, and Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi, and many other leaders. The Security Council has taken some actions. But there is a high expectation that the Security Council should be united and take decisive action to stop this bloodshed. I have been working very close with the world leaders. Now the six-point action plan by Joint Special Envoy Kofi Annan and action plans which was proposed on Geneva June 30, they provide good guidelines together with the two very important Security Council resolutions.

　　在这个过程中，我也是非常希望和各国的领导人，包括和中国政府的领导人，讨论叙利亚的问题，包括和胡锦涛主席、和杨洁篪外长，和其他的人讨论叙利亚的问题。安理会也采取了措施，我们有这种期望值，希望安理会能够团结在一起，采取行动，结束流血，我和世界领导人在密切的进行配合，六点方案是安南提出来的，而且在日内瓦6月30日的会议上也提出了相应的方案，这个能够很好的指引，而且安理会也通过了两项决议。

　　And all the members of the international community, particularly the members of the Security Council should work with a sense of urgency. Time is of essence at this time to stop this bloodshed. I'm ready to do whatever I can as the Secretary General of the United Nations to resolve this issue as soon as possible.

　　国际社会所有的成员，尤其是安理会的成员国，都应该有这种紧迫感，因为时间非常非常的紧迫，我们必须要抓紧时间结束流血。我希望做任何我能够做到的事情，作为联合国的秘书长来解决这个问题，尽快的解决。

　　Yang: But it seems that People have different opinions on this issue and there is a fine line between, for example, the humanitarian protection versus interfere of the internal affairs to some people's mind and also the responsibility to protect versus to protect with responsibility and how would you balance that?

　　杨澜：但是人民实际上在这个问题上的看法大不相同，比如说在人道主义的保护和内政干涉这方面的思想冲击，当然我们也有责任需要来保证他们的责任和义务，你如何来平衡这两点?

　　Ban: One fundamental principle in resolving this issue is that this process should be led by the Syrian people There should be no thus external interference. And another fundamental principle which was adopted by world leaders in 2005 is principle of responsibility to protect. When the government is not able to protect its own people from all these mass atrocities. When the government is not willing to protect its own citizens, the international community has the responsibility to protect these people. Unfortunately, we have not been able to see this principle of responsibility involved in the case of Cote d'Ivoire, in the case of Libyan crisis. The world was united and they were able to bring this principle involved. That’s why Libyan people and Cote d’Ivoire people were liberated from oppression And we were able to save tens of thousands of people who otherwise would have been killed. Now we have seen more than 15,000 people killed in that 16 months. There’s no time to waste now. We have to do all that we can.

　　潘基文：在解决这个问题的时候有一个根本的原则，就是应该由叙利亚的人民来主导，应该由叙利亚的人民来发挥主要的作用，而不是由外部来进行干预，这是一个根本的原则。还有另外一个根本的原则，也是世界各国领导人在2005年的时候通过的，就是保护责任的原则，就是当一个国家的政府不能够保护好自己的公民的时候，比如说在自然灾害的情况下或者其他情况下，一个国家的政府不能或者不愿意保护本国的人民的时候，世界的国际社会有这样的责任来保护相应的人民。然而不幸的是，我们看到这项原则，就是保护责任的原则，还没有被使用，比如说在科特迪瓦、在利比亚的危机中，世界是团结在了一起，实现了这个原则的使用，所以我们看到利比亚的人民和科特迪瓦的人民他们实现了解放，而且我们这样做让千千万万的人，可能被杀害的人避免了这种命运。比如在过去16个月中有很多人丧生，这告诉我们时间非常非常紧迫，我们不能够再等待了。

　　Yang: You are trying to convince all the leaders to make joint effort. Thank you very much.

　　杨澜：是需要游说很多政府的领导人。非常感谢!(微博用户@中国维和警察问题)秘书长，您好!2007、2009、2010年，您赴海地期间多次接触中国维和警察，请问您对中国维和警察的印象如何?您对目前中国的维和警察工作还有那些意见或建议?

　　Ban: First I’m very grateful to Chinese government and young women and men who are working very hard with strong sense of commitment of world peace and security. I’m very proud of them. When I am visiting peacekeeping operations I have met Chinese peacekeepers. There are nearly 2,000 Chinese peacekeepers working around the world in different missions in Darfur, Liberia, Congo, Haiti and Golan Heights. There are even eight very brave Chinese peacekeepers who are working in Syria for the UN supervision mission. This is a very dangerous place. So I am very grateful and proud. Of course, there are peacekeepers who lost lives. Fourteen Chinese peacekeepers have paid the ultimate high price in the name of peace and security. I’m also proud of the major general Cao, who is the force commander of UN peacekeeping operations at Cyprus. These are the people who really work to keep this world free, safe and peaceful. But unfortunately we still see many conflicts around the world. That’s why UN is maintaining more than 120,000 soldiers working in different missions. I still hope that China will continue to dedicate itself to world peace and security.

　　潘基文：首先，我非常感谢中国政府派遣年轻的维和部队的人士，有男性，也有女性，他们非常的负责，为世界的安全和和平作出贡献，我对此也感到非常的自豪。我的确去走访了这些维和部队的行动地点，也见到了中国的维和人员，有两千多名中国的维和人员在世界各地开展工作，参与各种各样的使命，包括利比里亚、刚果人民共和国、海地、戈兰高地，还有八位非常勇敢的维和人员在叙利亚开展工作，在联合国的监督团的任务里面开展工作，这是一个危险的地方，他们也在参与。当然也有维和人员献出了生命，有14位中国的维和人员为了和平安全奉献了自己的生命。我也对中国的维和部队所做的工作感到非常自豪，正是这些人他们让我们这个世界变得和平、安全和自由，但是遗憾的是，我们仍看到这个世界上充满了冲突，这也是为什么联合国有12万的维和人员在世界各地执行维和任务，我也希望中国将会继续向联合国的维和行动派出维和人员，为世界的和平与安全作出贡献。

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　　杨澜：(微博用户@文化东路问题)因为快速的城市化进程，很多年轻的父母都离开了乡镇，到城市工作，您有什么话要对这些年轻的父母说?

　　Ban: Now the generation of youth is the largest in history. We have many young generations who are ready to contribute themselves to the progress of the world in terms of social and economic development. Unfortunately there are too many young people who lack decent education and freedom and decent job opportunities. We must support them. They’ll become the leaders of our world tomorrow. They should be given full support full opportunities, not only education but particularly decent jobs. That is why the United Nations has taken the issue of youth as the top priority. In this January, I reported to the General Assembly that I’m going to appoint the special advisor on the issue of youth. They have energies and very creative ideas. I’m encouraged to see many young people are solving the problems they are facing. They are trying to use social networking media, trying to collaborate with young people in other countries and also other institutions. This is what they need for support. Our world leaders and the UN have paid great attention to this youth issue.

　　潘基文：现在年轻的这一代，人数在历史上是最多的，我们现在有很多很多的年轻人，他们已经做好了准备，在社会上作出自己的贡献，为社会的进步和繁荣作出贡献，无论是经济还是社会发展方面都作出自己的贡献，但是不幸的是，年轻人的人数非常非常多，其中很多人可能没有获得很好的教育，也没有很好的工作机会，没有体面的工作。我们必须要支持他们，因为他们会成为明天世界的领袖，所以应该给他们提供所有的支持，提供所有的机会，不光是教育方面，尤其是在就业方面，让他们获得体面的工作，这也是为什么联合国非常重视年轻人的问题，这是我们重点工作之一。在今年的1月份，我向联合国大会做了一份报告，在报告中我就指出，年轻人充满了能量，他们充满了创意，我非常鼓舞的看到，很多的年轻人他们现在在积极的参与他们所面临的问题的解决过程，他们在使用社交媒体，他们在和世界各地的年轻人进行交流，和各个机构进行交流，积极的参与到社会问题的解决中，我们必须要向他们提供支持，现在的世界的领导人，还有联合国，都非常重视这个问题。

　　杨澜：(微博用户@王赛赛问题)现在，许多年轻人都把联合国微博作为了解联合国的首选渠道。同时，联合国十多个机构也都开通了微博账户。想请问您对社交媒体对联合国的影响作用有何见解?

　　Ban: I myself have been communicating to reach out to people around the world through social media. Recently I participated in the Google Hangout, through which I have been able to speak to tens of thousands of people. This internet has changed the whole world in many aspects of our life. This is very creative. This is the best way to communicate and connect with the world.

　　潘基文：我自己也是尽量的和世界上的人民进行交流，通过使用社交媒体的形式进行交流。互联网从根本上改变了我们这个世界，在方方面面我们的生活都因为互联网而改变，互联网充满了创意，互联网可以说是一种最好的方式，让我们能够实现交流、实现联系。

　　The United Nations is also trying to reach out. We have very noble goals and objectives. But these goals and objectives should be shared by all the people around the world. And we have very important information to disseminate. This can be done only through social media in very limited time. I hope world leaders can use social media as often as I do. They have energies and ideas. These energies should be fully mobilized and utilized This is the basic purpose of using social media.

　　联合国也是在积极的通过这种形式进行联系，联合国有非常崇高的理想和目标，但是这些理想和目标应该加以沟通，让世界上的人民都能够共享这种理念，我们有非常重要的信息，我们希望能够加以传播，通过社交媒体这种形式来加以传播，效果非常好，因为社交媒体能够在很短时间之内把这些信息传播出去。我也衷心的希望，世界各国的领导人也能够更多的使用社交媒体，我自己就是这样的，像这些新的想法、新的能量、新的潜力，应该充分的发挥它们的作用，通过社交媒体可以帮助我们做到这一点。

　　As secretary general, I have learned great lessons that it is not only UN, not only the secretary general, not only world leaders, they have to work, talk and discuss with many people who would otherwise not be connected without social media.

　　作为联合国的秘书长，我也学到宝贵的一课，实际不光是联合国、不光是联合国的秘书长、不光是世界的领导人，他们要开展工作，他们应该和世界上的这些广大人民进行交流、进行沟通，通过社交媒体可以做到这一点。

　　Yang: I believe you also get inspirations from them too.

　　杨澜：当然我相信你从重也获得很多的灵感。

　　Ban: Yes. This social media is exploding and changing whole aspect of our life. So we have to fully use this to the benefit of our common goals.

　　潘基文：社交媒体可以说在爆炸性的发展，改变了我们生活的面貌，所以我们必须要学会使用社交媒体，用社交媒体实现共同的理想。

　　杨澜：(微博用户@名山问题)联合国秘书长被认为是世界上最难的一份工作，各方面矛盾都集中在你身上，为什么你还要做这项工作?

　　Ban: As a public servant, I have been working very hard. So whether it is a difficult or more difficult, that’s not the big problem for me. Because I’m appointed to the work. The more difficult thing is that when I’m not able or United Nations is not able to properly and correctly understand by other people. When some terrorists or some radicals attack United Nations or killing peace keepers or kidnapped humanitarian workers, this really sadden me. They simply do not understand what and why United Nation is there. There may be some differences of opinions depending on where you live, depending on what you’re doing. But maybe there are some grievances. United Nations is ready to resolve all these issues and complex issues through dialogue, through peaceful means.

　　潘基文：作为公仆，我的工作是非常辛苦的，无论这个工作多么难，我都要去做，这对我来说不是一个问题，因为我有这种信念。但是当恐怖分子或者是一些激进分子对联合国进行袭击或者谋杀维和人员或者是绑架人道主义工作者的时候，这真的让我感到非常的悲痛，他们应该很好的理解联合国的使命是什么、联合国存在的意义是什么，当然我们的意见可能会有很多的不同，生活在不同地方的人、做不同事情的人，在意见上可能会存在分歧，甚至可能会有矛盾，但联合国做好了准备，来解决所有的这些复杂的问题，而且是通过对话，通过和平的方式来解决这些问题。

　　When I took over my chair as secretary general, I myself laid available to all the people around the world and ready to discuss all the difficult issues, so that these difficult issues could be resolved harmoniously for the benefits of all the people around the world.

　　我刚开始做联合国秘书长的时候，总是保证我能够和世界各国的人民随时能够进行交流，从而可以随时去探讨这些复杂的问题、困难的问题，从而找到和谐的方式把这些困难的问题加以解决，实现人类共同的福利。

　　杨澜：我相信一定是非常难的，能够实现一个像很多的问题和谐的解决方案。

　　Ban: Yes, I have learned some wisdom and I have some experiences. I know how in dealing with world leaders and also people on the street, the youth and women. So I’m meeting all varieties of peoples.

　　潘基文：的确，在这个过程中也学到了一些经验，也积累了一些经验，在和世界各国领导人打交道的时候，在和街头上一般的人民打交道的时候，在和年轻人打交道的时候，我都学到了一些经验，就是我和信息上的人发生联系。

　　杨澜：(微博用户@鱼达人老板娘问题)潘基文先生您好，你在工作中，有“不想做，但不得不做”的事情吗?

　　Ban: Of course, the works are so difficult. Sometimes it looks like impossible to address. That’s why United Nations exists. That’s why so many tens of thousands UN staff are working day and night. There are many difficult issues which I do not want to see. So many poor people absolute poverty, so many sick people, so many women, girls and children whose human rights are totally abused and violated. We have to help them, we have to rescue them. But sometimes these are limited in our reach. That’s why I’m really urging and appealing to all world leaders, they should very strong commitment for the human rights of those vulnerable people, especially women and girls.

　　潘基文：当然了，这个世界充满了困难，有的时候表面上我们看上去有的事情真的是没法做、没法解决，这是联合国存在的目的和意义，这也是为什么成千上万的联合国工作人员日以继夜的工作，有很多很多非常困难的事情，我也不愿意看到这些现象的存在，比如说如此多的穷人，他们生活在绝对的贫困中，还有如此多的病人，还有如此多的女性和女孩子和儿童，他们的权利受到侵犯，我们必须要帮助他们，必须要解救他们。但有的时候我们能够做的事情是有限的，所以我也在呼吁世界各国的领导人，他们应该有非常强的承诺来保护这些脆弱人群，尤其是妇女和女童。

　　杨澜：看起来您是口才非常好的一位，什么时候您才会失去自己的耐心呢?比如说摔桌子?

　　Ban: As a human being, the people regard me as a very amicable person as you see. But when I see something is against the principle which I believe in, which United Nations believes in, then I really raise my voice and pound the table, and sometimes explodes myself.

　　潘基文：作为一个人，大家应该把我看成一个人吧，我当然看上去很友善，但有的时候当我看到发生了违背原则的事情，而且是我信奉的原则的事情，或者联合国的基本原则的事情，我就会大声疾呼，会拍桌子，甚至是会发脾气。

　　It’s very difficult to talk with those human rights perpetrator violators, particularly when the leaders some leaders are not committed to protecting those groups of people vulnerable groups of people. I have been speaking very clearly, very strongly and firmly that you must do, you must keep the principle of human rights and democratic principles. Many such cases, it is not proper for me to discourse all this.

　　杨澜：在第一任期的时候，有人把你叫做隐形人，在亚洲觉得这种非常谦虚，是一种美德，有人可能会怀疑说您缺少领导力、缺少巨大的能力，在第二任期里面，您还继续要当这个隐形人吗?

　　Ban: There are many ways for a leader, or not necessarily a leader, any, any person, the ways. There are some different ways and approaches. There are many cases where some private dialogues with the world leaders would be more effective than speaking out publicly by humiliating certain leaders. That doesn't work. If that is the only one case, you can humiliate your counterpart. When you have to work constantly with those leaders, try to correct all these wrong situations. And you have constantly get engaged with these leaders in such case political diplomacy is more effective.

　　潘基文：在很多时候其实一个领导人，不光一个领导人，其实任何人都可以用很多方式和方法来做工作，在很多情况下，比如说在进行私下对话的时候，和各国领导人在进行私下对话的时候，这种方式可能效果比公开的做演讲要更为有效，有的时候公开的讲什么事情可能效果并不好，可能会让你的对话方觉得受到了侮辱，比如说我们需要和某些领导人进行磋商的时候，希望他们来改变国内的一些不好的做好的时候，我们更倾向于采用静悄悄的外交的方式，这种效果更好。但有的时候如果情况让人实在难以容忍的话，我也会大声的发出自己的声音。我是把这两种方式综合的加以使用，像谦虚，这种美德只是一种领导的风格而已，和政策没有关系，如果真的是遇到了非常困难、非常棘手的问题，我从来不会犹豫，会果断的采取行动。

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　　杨澜：(微博用户 @烟水如画问题)去年您在联合国宣誓连任的时候，引用了老子的话：“天之道，利而不害;圣人之道，为而不争，您觉得这种古老的哲学怎么能应用在今天联合国的工作中去呢?

　　Ban: As you know, I have been raised in Confucius tradition, and I have been told and I have learnt and I have been trying to practice. I have learnt many such wisdoms from Confucius, and Mencius and many other such sages. That really has been very helpful in my public service as you see in general. I try to use as much as I can such wisdom. It's not really Asian philosophers, but also western philosophers like Aristotle or Plato. They have taught us good lessons and good wisdoms. So when you have to deal with so many different divergent viewers and it is always necessary to use that kind of wisdom. And I'm very proud of myself that I have learnt much of these teachings of Confucius and Asian philosophers and also western philosophers. We can use these teachings. It's what I continue to do.

　　潘基文：我自己也是成长于一个儒家的文化环境中，所以我也学到了儒家的文化，并且把儒家的思想付诸实施，我从儒家的文化，包括孔子和孟子这里学到了很多很多的智慧，这对我来说非常非常有用，在我做联合国秘书长这种国际公务员的时候，儒家的精神对我很有帮助，我觉得这种思想不光是亚洲的思想，像西方的这些哲学家，亚里士多德，他们也对我有很多的启发，也给了我很多的智慧和启迪。因为有很多很多的视角和观点，所以我们在工作的时候可以很好的使用这些视角、这些智慧，在我工作期间，我比如说有的时候用到亚洲这些思想家的思想，有的时候会用到西方哲学家的思想，这也是我以后会继续做的事情。

　　杨澜：非常好，非常感谢您!实际人们非常感兴趣的问题是，想更好理解联合国的内部改革，您觉得这比政府或者说面对外部的一些问题更加困难吗?

　　Ban: To address properly and effectively all these challenges, we have to make our organization more effective and efficient, accountable and transparent. We have many tools which we have. If we use these valuable tools effectively, then it will depict that we can address all these challenges, like climate change, water scarcity, food crisis, changing parliament and global health insurance, much better and much quicker and much more effectively. That is why I made the changing management of the United Nations as our top priorities. I have set out five priorities of my second term as Secretary-General. That is sustainable development and preventive diplomacy to make this world safer and more peaceful, and to help those counties in Arab, in Israel, in transition. Fifth, to work for women and young people, and to work with the women parliament. And to ensure these five priorities successful, we have to make our organization stronger and more effective. That is my vision. And I'm also in the process of strengthening the partnership with the government business communities and philanthropies and civil societies and youth and women groups.

　　潘基文：要有效的和恰当的解决全球的这些挑战，我们必须要让联合国工作更为有效，更加高效，而且更加有问责、更加透明。我们有很多很多的工具，我们可以有效的使用这些工具，如果能够做到这一点的话，我们就能够很好的解决全球的挑战，比如说气候变化、食品的短缺、性别歧视等等，能够以更有效的方式、更高效的方式来解决这些全球的挑战。所以我也把联合国管理的改革作为联合国的一项重点工作，我确立了五项工作的重点，是想在我担任联合国秘书长的第二个任期内会大力的去做，包括可持续发展和预防性的外交等等，从而让这个世界变得更加和平与安全，让阿拉伯的国家和以色列能够和平相处。还有，为妇女和年轻人工作，让他们能够获得权利。为了实现这五大工作重点并且取得成效，我们必须让联合国变得更有效、更强劲，这是我的一个设想，我现在也正在做加强联合国的工作，加强联合国与各国政府，与私营部门和公民社会之间的合作，加强妇女组织与年轻组织之间的联系。

　　杨澜：面临全世界这么多的问题，有的时候您会感觉非常悲观吗?或者说您是不是相信我们的这个世界实际上在变得越来越好呢?

　　Ban: Now there are many problems in this world. Basically, I'm optimistic. If you are not the optimist, you cannot solve these problems.

　　潘基文：这个世界仍然面临很多问题，基本上而言我还是很乐观的，如果你不是一个乐观主义者，你还是解决不了这些问题。

　　杨澜：好的，我明白了。

　　Ban: If we really want to make something happen, you have to dedicate yourself with the strong sense of faith and optimism. That's what I believe in and that's what I have been practicing.

　　潘基文：如果真的想世界有所改观，你必须要奉献出自己的确有非常强的这种信心和乐观主义精神，这是我信奉的，这也是我自己工作中加以实践的。

　　杨澜：你必须深信这一点，所以才能够美梦成真。你每天需要工作多少小时呢?

　　Ban: Sometimes I sleep very little. Sometimes you have to sleep two hours or three hours. But normally, I try to sleep four to five hours a day. But there has been no such weekends for me.

　　潘基文：有的时候我真的是不睡觉，有的时候可能只能睡两三个小时，通常情况下我要保证睡四五个小时吧，但是对我来说基本上是没有周末的。

　　杨澜：也没有什么时间开展自己的兴趣爱好吗?

　　Ban: No time for hobbies. It's very difficult to find some time for a hobby. But whenever I'm free, even few hours, I try to play some golf, some sports and also practice some calligraphy.

　　潘基文：也没有时间做自己感兴趣的爱好，每当我有空闲的时候，比如只有几个小时的空闲的时候，我就会打打高尔夫球，做一些体育运动，并且练习书法。

　　杨澜：这对您的帮助是怎样的呢，是可以冷静下来吗?

　　Ban: When I was a very young boy in school, I learned calligraphy little. But I stopped maybe 15 or 16 years, and then recently I began to practice some. It really helps for your mind and for your body. That really makes you concentrate on your focus and makes your mind peaceful. You don't think about other things, but to concentrate.

　　潘基文：我还是一个小孩子的时候，在学校里我学了书法，但后来50年、60年都没有再练过，最近我又开始重新练习书法，我觉得这种练习对我身心的健康来说都是非常有帮助的，疼痛让我更加专注，能够让我的心态保持平衡，在练书法的时候我就不会想其他的事情，能够全神贯注。

　　I often think that calligraphy and diplomacy have some common feature. When you see a beautiful calligraphy arts, you don't appreciate how much time and excessive efforts have been spent. You just appreciate the beautiful result, without knowing how much time and energy have been spent. When you hammer out these all difficult, complicated political issues, lots of things must have been done behind the scenes. It's not much visible as I have been doing for five and half years behind the scenes and speaking with the world leaders. They usually see peace and harmony, but people should appreciate more, how much time and energy has been spent behind this peace. So I think all these artistic works, not necessarily calligraphy but other artistic work and diplomacies do have common.

　　我也觉得书法和外交其实是有很多的共性，你看到一个非常美的书法作品的时候，你会去想这个到底花了多少时间和精力，但实际上你不会想花了多少时间和精力，只是欣赏一个美丽的艺术作品，可能意识不到这个艺术家花了多少时间和精力。实际上在做外交工作的时候，我们通过外交来解决这些非常复杂的困难的政治问题的时候，其实也会做很多很多的幕后工作，这些工作是人们看不到的，比如说在过去五年半，我做了大量幕后的工作，我和世界领导人做了很多很多次沟通，后来实现了和平、实现了和谐，我想人们以后在看到实现和平的时候需要更多的思考实现和平的幕后工作到底是多大的工作量。不光是书法作品了，其他的艺术作品，我觉得和外交实际有这样的共性。

　　杨澜：也有很多的国际组织逐渐的崛起，比如说G20，他们最近得到了加强，您觉得这对于UN的权威性是不是某种程度上有一定的威胁呢?

　　Ban: No, it's complementary, after all. The G20 was established in the way called world financial crisis. They have been working together very decisively in addressing this crisis, but still they have not finish it. I'm optimistic that with the help of the world's 21 leaders, including China, world leaders would be able to address this financial crisis. United Nations has been in the center and always been working very closely when the G20 leaders await, then they come to the General Assembly of the United Nations for any institutional decision-making processes. As Secretary-General representing all 193 member states of UN, I have been actively participating in the G20 and other world forums.

　　潘基文：没有，没有，我觉得他们的作用是互补的，相辅相成的，G20是在世界金融危机之后建立起来的，G20的这些国家是一起合作非常果断的采取措施来应对全球的金融危机，当然这项工作没有完成，但是我是很有信心，我很乐观，我觉得在G20的这些20个国家的参与下，包括中国的参与下，我们能够很好的解决世界金融危机。联合国也是处于一个核心的位置，联合国一直以来都和相关方面进行密切的合作，G20的领导人他们达成了某项协议，之后还会去联合国的联大上提出这个提议，这是一个体制上的安排，作为联合国的秘书长，我代表的是联合国的197个会员，我也是以这种身份在积极的参与G20的活动和世界上其他的论坛。

　　杨澜：我们也可以说联合国是在一个变得越来越平的世界中不断的往前演进，在二战之后联合国也是自己的成员国本身开始进行了改革，成为了一个在国际社会等等各方面成为更加国际化的组织，也就是说它正在逐渐的适应一个新的世界。

　　Ban: Yes, it's true that the United Nations is the largest only universal international organization. At the same time, UN has to work closely with member states and regional organizations with less membership. They have played a very important role in addressing many issues happening in the region. So sometimes we have to give leadership to these regional organizations. You see many such organizations, African Union, European Union and OES. In Asia, we have many sub-regional organizations like APEC. These regional and sub-regional organizations have been working very closely with the United Nations. That's why once in two years or once in one and half years, I have been inviting all the heads of these international, regional and sub-regional organizations to the United Nations and discuss how left issues we can work together very closely with all these organizations. That is the best way to really make the things addressed.

　　潘基文：的确，联合国是世界上最大的普遍性的国际组织，与此同时，联合国必须密切的与成员国和区域性的国际组织进行合作，这些区域性的国际组织可能他的成员没有联合国那么多，但是他也发挥了重要的作用，他们也在积极的解决他们所面临的区域性的问题。有的时候我们必须要放手，让这些区域性的组织发挥更大的作用，我们看到有很多这样的区域性组织，包括非盟和欧盟，还有其他的OES这样的组织，在亚洲也有很多这样的区域组织，包括亚太经合组织，这些区域性的组织和次区域性的组织非常密切的和联合国在进行配合，比如说每两年或者每三年或者每半年我都会邀请这些区域性的组织，还有次区域性组织的领导人，来联合国和我进行交流，讨论如何能够与联合国进行合作，我觉得这是一种最好的方式能够让我们解决这些问题。

　　杨澜：我可以向您保证，您肯定这样做没有时间睡觉了，因为您有那么多的工作要做。非常感谢秘书长先生，非常感谢您刚才与我们的交流和互动，与我们新浪微博的粉丝进行交流，非常感谢，祝您在北京愉快。

　　Ban: Thank you. Xiexie, zaijian.

　　潘基文：谢谢，再见。

　　杨澜：这里也要感谢所有联合国新浪微博的粉丝朋友们参与我们的活动，非常抱歉，很多朋友的问题在有限的时间里没有来得及问，但是大家的参与是让我们非常的感动，也感到非常的高兴，谢谢大家的参与，也希望大家能够更多的来关注联合国秘书长潘基文先生这次在北京参加中非合作论坛的活动，同时也更多的关心联合国的各项消息。谢谢!

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